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I don't know all the details, but it seems to me like this is why anyone supporting #palestine should fight like hell for #rankedchoicevoting

If we had #rcv right now, I don't think the DNC candidate (whoever that was) would be able to ignore Palestine. The #DNC itself would not be able to ignore it.

So that's why I think #Democrats (at least their leadership) will fight to oppose RCV if it ever becomes a real possibility. They absolutely do not want to be forced to weigh the needs of their constituents against the needs of their wealthiest donors.

#uspol#israel#lobby

@guyjantic
No one is ignoring Palestine. They are literally fighting to get the hostages released every day.

@unclesam How many Palestinian speakers were at the DNC, again? Do you remember the number?

@guyjantic
Is that your only measuring stick? You gonna just ignore the work being done just because they didn't let anyone speak who was gonna shit on Joe. There's a time and a place.

@unclesam

"there's a time and a place" - 100% used by people who want to choose the time and place.

@guyjantic @unclesam
Notice you didn't answer the question, troll.

@jacklaridian @unclesam Not sure who you mean, but if it's me, I'll say I'm willing to have a discussion if @unclesam is. First, I would need them to address the issues they raised, instead of changing the subject.

@guyjantic @unclesam
Is that what you see? You said the dems are 'ignoring Palestine,' he said they're fighting everyday to release the hostages and you changed the subject to asking about speakers at the DNC.

So, are you going to answer the question?

'You gonna just ignore the work being done just because they didn't let anyone speak who was gonna shit on Joe?'

@jacklaridian @unclesam I think I misunderstood the response. "they're fighting every day to release hostages" (a) sounded like something not specific to Dems--I think I misunderstood that, and (b) isn't support for Palestine, it's support for Israel. Unless you're talking about the thousands of Palestinian hostages and there's a Democrat project I don't know about to get them released.

As for (a) OK, so Dems are doing something for Israel "every day." And then denying Ilhan Omar, Qasim Rashid, Muslims for Kamala, et al. any voice at the convention. This doesn't sound like there is any new information in this conversation suggesting that Democrats have any commitment to stopping Israel's genocide in Palestine. Maybe I misunderstood something else, though; something that the DNC is actually doing to support Palestine.

@guyjantic @jacklaridian
And there lies the problem...

You see the release of hostages as ONLY helping Israel. HAMAS releasing the hostages means a ceasefire. They aren't going to stop until the last 72 (I think) people are released.

Having people speak at the love fest isn't going to change that. Biden is on the phone every day trying to get a cease fire before the election. Trust in that.

@unclesam @jacklaridian Oh, OK. So your point was that the Dems are indirectly helping Palestine by working for Israel. I agree, to an extent; the hostages need to be released. However, there's a sort of death-standoff going on: hostages are being held because Israel keeps flattening apartment blocks and elementary schools. Israel says it has to kill tens of thousands of civilians to get the hostages back. Bibi also keeps rejecting ceasefire deals that don't give Israel 100% of their demands.

Perhaps we disagree on what the DNC "supporting Palestine" looks like.

*Edit*: I'm supposed to "trust" that Biden is on the phone every day doing things to stop the genocide while the evidence suggests a much more mixed picture--i.e., he keeps sending weapons (he has literally broken US law this year to send even more weapons) and seems allergic to any public support for a ceasefire. These things do not promote trust, and "just trust the president" is something I haven't done since Bush and the WMDs.

@guyjantic @jacklaridian
No, I think we agree that Joe should stop sending them bombs. He's not going to do that because he wants to stay in the good graces with Netanyahu. I thoroughly disagree with how he's handling this mess, but be clear that he's not doing NOTHING.

More importantly, I'm sick of people blaming Kamala for Joe's failed policies. The VP has no power, outside of being the deciding vote in Congress. This is HER moment and if she doesn't win, Gaza is toast.

@unclesam @jacklaridian He could maybe... not send illegally more bombs.

But okay, yes, we agree on that.

If Joe is going to say one thing publicly while doing another privately, then he can take his lumps and tell us about his secret heroism later. I don't think he's doing nothing; I think he's doing what he's done his entire career: keep everybody (especially his donors) happy. He's being a radical centrist, as he always has been. To be fair, I think he has done more to advance policies I value than any president in my lifetime (i.e., since Carter), but he has done the good things while doing some other bad things and ignoring some other things. That's a good description of most presidents (one exception I can think of), but it's not a reason to stop pushing for more good/less bad.

I'm not blaming Kamala for anything Joe did. Perhaps I hold her responsible for participating in the silencing of Palestinian or pro-Palestinian voices at the convention, but it's not even about that. I want change. She wants to be the greatest single-person agent of change on the planet, and I want to see more positive change. Overall, she's doing great, and seems likely to be one of the best presidents in a century, but none of that means I'm OK with a pretty clear agenda to silence the voices of a marginalized and relatively powerless minority group being murdered by the tens of thousands (now actually estimated hundreds of thousands) while we fund it. Yes, there are other genocides and horrible things, but I'm not aware of any we are directly funding to this extent. I want that to change.

I'm going to vote Kamala; the alternative is unthinkable. I'm not going to stop pointing out hypocrisy and massive missed opportunities in her actions, if I see them.

@guyjantic @jacklaridian
Think about it like this...

Americans vote on vibes. The DNC is a 'good vibe' place where Joe Biden gets a 10 min ovation for 'having the courage' to step down. Whatever.

It's good for the election that the DNC stays a love fest, which excludes voices that are going to hold his feet to the fire.

So let Biden continue his half-assed fight to get a cease fire before the election. The next administration can go after Bibi for war crimes.. and Biden, for that matter.

Jack O' Lantern

@unclesam @guyjantic
That will never happen, but going after Netanyahu might. But again, only if Kamala wins this one. If Trump wins in November, he's going to let Bibi 'finish the job'