Are the racial limitations regarding class selection and level cap (etc.) of older #DnD versions racist?
@tintenteufel
You should probably learn what the word' racist' means.
@jacklaridian @tintenteufel if you assume someone is inherently less intelligent or chaotic evil because he belongs to a certain racial group, that's racist.
Fantasy racist, but nevertheless something one can reflect upon.
@sonic81 @tintenteufel
Nope. That's bigotry. Thanks for playing.
@jacklaridian @tintenteufel
Of course, you're right. Every racist is a bigot. But not every bigot is racist.
Your turn.
@sonic81 @tintenteufel
That's correct.
@jacklaridian @tintenteufel so we both win, yay. (You'll need to edit out the "Nope" from above, to be eligible for prices, though)
@sonic81 @tintenteufel
Okay, let me stop being flippant.
If you have a system that says Dwarves won't use magic (because they hate it, or whatever), it not racist to say they aren't able to, but more of a stereotype.
That said, the system is like God in the way that it controls everything, so if 'God' says Dwarves can't use magic, it's not racist. It's just how it is.
Is the creator of the game racist for stopping Dwarves from using magic? No, they're just balancing the game.
No racism.
@jacklaridian @tintenteufel
It would depend, for me, how much that discriminates them. When everyone can use magic but the dwarves... also how marginalised the dwarves are in general. Most dwarves are okay, I believe. If you'd be of the opinion gygax treated the goblins poorly, however.
It's fantasy racism, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's victimless and therefore okay.
@sonic81 @tintenteufel
Oh yes, the poor Goblins.
No, really. Who's the victim?
@jacklaridian @tintenteufel
Indeed. https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0093.html
I didn't say its not victimless, I said it needs reflection and awareness. Else some kids take this as acceptable and find their own victims.
@sonic81 @tintenteufel
Ah, so you think that kids will play the classic good vs evil game and equate 'goblins' to real life victims? That's a BIG fuckin' leap.
That's like the parents who claimed pretending to cast spells will lead kids to want to cast spells for real and turn to Satanism to accomplish this.
It ignores the Human's ability to separate fiction from reality. If someone is delusional, it's not the game creators fault.
@jacklaridian @tintenteufel we're leaving the bounds of this topic now, which is sad, because we'd have a lot to discuss. I didn't say anything about fault. I didn't even say its bad. I just said, it is (fantasy) racism (and bigotry ) and there should be some form of awareness.
You lost me when you said it wasn't victimless. (which you did say, btw. see below)
'I wouldn't go so far as to say it's victimless and therefore okay.'
You said that. Not me.
It is victimless and okay. In fact, it's healthy. It plays out these topics in a world where it can't hurt anyone. The faux bigotry these stories invoke actually teaches people not to discriminate and there's scientific evidence of that.
@jacklaridian @tintenteufel
...as far as to say (it's victimless and therefore okay).
You go that far, and that's okay for me. If it's scientificly backed I like it even better.
In the end we agreed: there is racism/bigotry (and it is okay)
Bigotry? yes. Racism? no.